WIVES CHEATING, HUSBANDS WATCHING
Gut wrenching, heart thumping stories that get your juices flowing, by the master of cuckold and hotwife fiction,
Gustav Jorgenson
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  1. #1
    scormus is offline Junior Member scormus is on a distinguished road
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    Default Systematic, deliberate choice of bio father by wives in marriage

    Can you guys imagine a world where feminism goes so far, that it gets to where in marriage women have the right to choose the bio father (and for most husbands its not going to be them!)

    Or does the legal system have us there already?

    I'm also surprised women haven't gotten around to doing this systematically already?

    See letter published on the "Elise Sutton" website (its a femdom website but has cuckoldry within its subject matter).

    Dear Elise: A little over five years ago, in February 2004, I wrote a letter to you in favor of women who require their husbands and children to assume their surname, which you graciously posted online in the Q&A April, 2004. Today I want to write a personal letter thanking you for helping me maintain courage and resolve in those early years of my journey.
    At the time I wrote, I was a 24 year old grad student, two years married to an older man. We are still happily married, and I'm now building a career, having obtained my Master's degree later in the year that I wrote you. I had discovered your site a year and a half before that. I was already a female supremacist ideologically, but your site gave me a great deal of practical information, especially in regard to maintaining my new husband's submissiveness.
    I took your knowledge and wisdom concerning chastity, discipline, a nurturing, loving attitude, and so on, (in short, loving female authority) and tailored it to my own situation. I started him down the road toward permanent chastity (I allow him infrequent masturbation) soon after I found your site, and I started feeling more comfortable using my own sexuality to keep him submissive. Such information was vital to my growth as a dominant wife, and I will always be grateful to you. I'm still practicing the things I learned from you in those early years.
    In my letter, I briefly described my wedding, during which my husband promised to love and obey me, place my goals and desires above his, and so forth. In private, he had also promised to regard my body as my own. He affirmed that I had the right to cuckold him if I desired; that I had the right to decide when to have children and to choose the bio father; and, as I described in my letter, that he would be my helpmate, raising my children born of my body. I made these things crystal clear to him long before our wedding. He agreed, saying he was a true submissive, that he loved me more than life itself (which made me feel fantastic, I admit!) and that he only wanted what I wanted.
    Today, I am well on the way to realizing my dream. I've become pregnant twice since I wrote you. I gave birth to a beautiful little boy in July of '06, and I'm now seven months pregnant with a little girl. I would like to have one more (maybe not quite so soon!), while I'm young, strong, and fertile. And of course, my son has my name, as will my other children. My husband has been a dream. He was a devoted, kind, loving househusband before my son was born, and even more so now. He's so patient, and gentle, a true nurterer.

    Permanent chastity was difficult for him in the beginning, but now, thanks to the techniques you advocated, he is accustomed to it and rather proud of being able to do such a difficult thing for me. We are quite affectionate, however, and I allow him the honor of performing oral and body worship on me rather frequently. Even today, after being married almost eight years, he writes little love notes, is always eager to give me a massage after a long day, and keeps a beautiful house.

    Elise, when I look at the letter I wrote you, I have to smile a little. I was a woman who had a strong ideological stance, and I was eager to bolster my arguments with logic and reason. Well, I've mellowed a little. Life will do that to you. However, there isn't a sentence in that letter that I would take back. Women need to be in charge of their own bodies, their own reproduction, and own their families. Paternity needs to matter less, and the welfare of all children needs to matter more.
    Well, before I start to rant again, I'll close. I just wanted to thank you, and I'm glad you're still fighting the good fight.

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  3. #2
    bobbieboy is offline Junior Member bobbieboy will become famous soon enough
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    This approach to modern marriage is not as extreme or uncommon as you may think. My wife and quite a few of her fellow female attorneys practice marriages similar to the one described here. She has had three wonderful daughters that I have delightedly and lovingly helped to raise. She and I both agreed, early on in our marriage, that my sterilization was the best approach. Of course, when we wed I took her name and eventually gave up my career (also as a lawyer) so that I could be her homemaker and personal secretary. We are both very pleased with this arrangement.

    Though my wife does not keep me in chastity, she does oversee my pleasuring myself.

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  5. #3
    Rob Y is offline Distinguished Member Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough
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    Ah yes, the Elise site. I remember stopping there a few times back in the early 2000s when all the archives were free. My wife isn't isn't very dominant much to my chagrin, so it provided a lot of material for wannabe subs like me. Cuckolding was discussed some there to, as you said Scormus, and always within the framwork of femdom. Most of the letters were way out there, but some were more plausible. I remember one from a woman who was angry with her husband for not fixing the brakes on her car when he promised to. She nearly hit someone. When he got home from work that night, she cut off his most prized possesion -- no, not that -- she took a pair of scissors and cut off his long, Jim Morrison style hair he'd had since he was a teen. She chopped it up so bad the only thing left to do was give him a buzzcut.

    As for the legal system allowing the woman to choose the bio father, here in my state, the husband of the woman is considered the father of his wife's child, regardless of the bio father. If a DNA test is done, the wife or husband can sue the bio father for child support, but unless some legal action is initiated, the husband is presumed to be the father and is responsible for the child.

    As for a woman choosing the father of her child systematically and deliberately in the way described, that would be extremely rare, probably confined to radical ideologues. However, I've lived long enough to know that there are some very bizarre and odd people on this planet (I've been accused of being one lol, although I couldn't hold a candle to some), and few situations can be considered totally impossible.

    Setting one night stands aside, a woman "chooses" the father of her children, if it isn't going to be her husband, by dating and developing a long term affair or relationship, without any feminist idealism or empowerment strategy involved. One of our kids was fathered by a guy my wife was very hung up on, and I was worried whether I was going to lose her. When she found out she was pregnant, she was over the moon, not because she was living out any core principles, but because was pregnant by a guy she was crazy over. There was no way she wasn't going to have that baby, but that's biology, not political principle. Of course, there are women who get pregnant from one night stands as well. But again, it's a diverse world, and there are bound to be some few statistical outliers out there who live out their radical beliefs through their relationships.

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  7. #4
    christinebitg is offline Pillar of the Community christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future
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    My girlfriend, while an attorney, is not set on this course. She can sometimes be described as dominant, though.

    My second ex-wife, on the other hand, wanted me to take her name. I politely declined at the time, which I still think was the right decision, although it's interesting to think about at times.

    xoxoxo

    Christine

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    Rob Y is offline Distinguished Member Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough
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    Quote Originally Posted by christinebitg View Post
    My girlfriend, while an attorney, is not set on this course. She can sometimes be described as dominant, though.

    My second ex-wife, on the other hand, wanted me to take her name. I politely declined at the time, which I still think was the right decision, although it's interesting to think about at times.

    xoxoxo

    Christine
    Yes, a husband taking his wife's name is interesting, and it's becoming more common as well. It's startling sometimes when the customs we take for granted are reversed. For example, a number of American Caucasian men marry Asian wives. When the wife has an American sounding surname, it doesn't raise many eybrows or seem too odd. But if her husband were to take her name, he'd never hear the end of rude questions and ridicule. There is a Caucasian man who blogs about Japanese culture who took his wife's last name, which was Sakamoto. He had a very healthy, humorous attitude about it, and he said he did it both as a tribute to his wife and because he liked the sound of her surname. When he told strangers his last name he'd get questions such as, "Are you half?" He'd say, "Yes. My mom's German and my dad's Dutch." He mentioned being teased by men, and but he took it in stride and said, "I got scorn from those fellas long before I became my wife's bitch."

    This is an area where the law is behind the times in some U.S. states. When a new wife wants to take her husband's name, she can put her married name on her driver's license and other documentation with little trouble. But if a man wants to take his wife's name, he has to go through the legal process of changing his name which can take a lot of time and money. Other states have rescinded this these rules, and treat men and women equally. In any case, I hope the trend continues.
    Last edited by Rob Y; 12-31-2012 at 11:56 PM.

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    scormus is offline Junior Member scormus is on a distinguished road
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    For me its not so much about taking the wife's last name, but about open non-paternity for husbands identified as "beta" husbands who might not be the best genetically but can be great providers.

    Such marriages seem a win-win:
    a) To be a beta husband to a beautiful woman one would still typically need to be affluent and able to provide well for the children born of the marriage
    b) The beautiful woman can have intense affairs resulting in pregnancy with her lover and the husband is supposed to accept, the lover typically is siring several wives and doesn't want to commit so the wife isn't leaving the husband
    c) End result is the woman has the best of both worlds: the tall, handsome son growing up in the big house
    d) The loser "genetically" is the cuckold beta husband who is not able to pass his own genes to the next generation, but if he can get over this it is to the benefit of all

    To those raising their wife's child by her lover: is it a constant turn-on and delicious humiliation to see the child daily?

    This would all work if society accepted this as a common arrangement, I feel this isn't so common as it could be because of social norms.

    P.S. Should I offer a deal like this to that escort I fell in love with and would she be tempted, or likely think I am crazy?
    Last edited by scormus; 01-01-2013 at 12:31 AM.

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  13. #7
    Rob Y is offline Distinguished Member Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough
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    Quote Originally Posted by scormus View Post
    For me its not so much about taking the wife's last name, but about open non-paternity for husbands identified as "beta" husbands who might not be the best genetically but can be great providers.

    Such marriages seem a win-win:
    a) To be a beta husband to a beautiful woman one would still typically need to be affluent and able to provide well for the children born of the marriage
    b) The beautiful woman can have intense affairs resulting in pregnancy with her lover and the husband is supposed to accept, the lover typically is siring several wives and doesn't want to commit so the wife isn't leaving the husband
    c) End result is the woman has the best of both worlds: the tall, handsome son growing up in the big house
    d) The loser "genetically" is the cuckold beta husband who is not able to pass his own genes to the next generation, but if he can get over this it is to the benefit of all

    To those raising their wife's child by her lover: is it a constant turn-on and delicious humiliation to see the child daily?

    This would all work if society accepted this as a common arrangement, I feel this isn't so common as it could be because of social norms.

    P.S. Should I offer a deal like this to that escort I fell in love with and would she be tempted, or likely think I am crazy?
    Your lettered points describe my basic situation relatively well. Whether I'm affluent depends on whom I'm compared to, but to my wife and her family I was a good catch. And yes, regarding looks, my wife is way out of my league, no question. I'm aware she was attracted by the security I could provide, although we were friends first, and had some interests in common. I'm reconciled to being the loser genetically. My wife is not past her child bearing years, but it's getting close, and since she is very rarely in the mood for intercourse with me, it's highly unlikely I'll ever father children.

    Is it a constant turnon or delicious humiliation seeing another man's child daily? No, it isn't. It gets to be routine, and you bond with the child as if he is your own. That doesn't mean it's never exciting, though. I've now seen photos of both of the guys who fathered my two kids, and when my wife was dating them I remember her talking to them on the phone, and mentioning their quirks, habits, etc. I'll catch some of those when I watch my kids, and then it is exciting. And, neither of them looks like me in the least, and that's exciting when I take time to think about it. When your wife is pregnant is also a very exciting time, and so is the birth.

    Yes, I agree this would all be easier for cuckolds and their wives if it was part of a social norm. I don't know whether that will ever happen, because most guys by far want to plant the seed themselves. Just the idea of being a cuckold makes a lot of guys viscerally angry. On the other hand, the cuckold fantasy is one of the most popular, so who can be sure it won't some day be at least a little more acceptable, perhaps including cuckold fatherhood.

    As for the escort, I wouldn't offer her a deal just out of the blue. I'd let her know more subtly and slowly that monogamy wasn't that important to you, yet also make sure she knows you're very interested in her. Beyond that I'll let others advise.
    Last edited by Rob Y; 01-01-2013 at 02:26 AM.

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  15. #8
    christinebitg is offline Pillar of the Community christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Y View Post
    "I got scorn from those fellas long before I became my wife's bitch."

    This is an area where the law is behind the times in some U.S. states. When a new wife wants to take her husband's name, she can put her married name on her driver's license and other documentation with little trouble. But if a man wants to take his wife's name, he has to go through the legal process of changing his name which can take a lot of time and money. Other states have rescinded this these rules, and treat men and women equally. In any case, I hope the trend continues.
    I think the potential for him to become his wife's "bitch" was always there. Of course like anyone else here, I'd love to hear more about what happened in their relationship.

    A name change shouldn't take a lot of time and money. If it does, some lawyer is milking it, by charging whatever he thinks he can get away with. My GF changed her legal name years ago (here in Texas) and all it took was a form and a hearing. I realize that could be a lot of money to some people, but it shouldn't be more than a couple of hours of the lawyer's time. If money is that tight for someone, it's also possible to do the work yourself, if you're willing to go to the time and trouble of getting the form from the government and showing up on your own behalf in front of a judge.

    xoxoxo

    Christine

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    christinebitg is offline Pillar of the Community christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future christinebitg has a brilliant future
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    Quote Originally Posted by scormus View Post
    Should I offer a deal like this to that escort I fell in love with and would she be tempted, or likely think I am crazy?
    No and Yes, in that order.

    No, you should not offer it to her.

    Yes, she will think you are crazy.

    My first ex worked in a massage parlor for a couple of years, while we were living together. She gave a LOT of hand jobs and blow jobs, and the money was good. If I had been born female, I would have done it also.

    What she knows, and perhaps you don't, is that for her, it's just a job. That doesn't mean it's not an _enjoyable_ job, but it's still just a job.

    xoxoxo

    Christine

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    scormus is offline Junior Member scormus is on a distinguished road
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    Looking back on her actions (and not her words) I would have to agree with you Christine. Her stopping escorting otherwise and seeing just me at one point was not down to me but out of laziness, her busy social and family (e.g. siblings, mum) life, and her desire to lower her risk of discovery.

    Looking back it made a lot of sense - I got her down to very modest rates, and she got stability and security.

    At best there was a genuine friendship and a genuine sexual chemistry on top of the "job" aspect of it, but end of the day the "job" aspect was always there.

    I reckon precisely because I'm not someone she'd normally be shagging (3 inches shorter, a decade older, different race, but otherwise attractive and in good physical shape), that she was able to let go and relax, and that's why the sexual chemistry was good.

    If she contacts me again, do you guys reckon it makes sense to continue the friendship with her and there could be a cuckold context, or is this just something I should forget about for my own sanity?

  18. #11
    Rob Y is offline Distinguished Member Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough Rob Y is a jewel in the rough
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    Quote Originally Posted by christinebitg View Post
    I think the potential for him to become his wife's "bitch" was always there. Of course like anyone else here, I'd love to hear more about what happened in their relationship.

    A name change shouldn't take a lot of time and money. If it does, some lawyer is milking it, by charging whatever he thinks he can get away with. My GF changed her legal name years ago (here in Texas) and all it took was a form and a hearing. I realize that could be a lot of money to some people, but it shouldn't be more than a couple of hours of the lawyer's time. If money is that tight for someone, it's also possible to do the work yourself, if you're willing to go to the time and trouble of getting the form from the government and showing up on your own behalf in front of a judge.

    xoxoxo

    Christine
    As for the blogger who took his wife's name, I don't know what finally happened in their relationship, but to get the original blog entry, you can google these words: sakamoto "my wife's bitch" . I haven't tried searching for more updated information on how they are faring, but some further googling might provide it.

    Yes, lawyers can milk a name change (as well as a lot of other procedures lol) for money, no doubt, and it shouldn't cost too much if things are on the up and up. But I still think a man should be able to take his wife's name as easily as she can take his. A wife doesn't have to have a hearing or appear before a judge after she's married, and a husband shouldn't either.

  19. #12
    scormus is offline Junior Member scormus is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Y View Post
    Yes, I agree this would all be easier for cuckolds and their wives if it was part of a social norm. I don't know whether that will ever happen, because most guys by far want to plant the seed themselves. Just the idea of being a cuckold makes a lot of guys viscerally angry. On the other hand, the cuckold fantasy is one of the most popular, so who can be sure it won't some day be at least a little more acceptable, perhaps including cuckold fatherhood..
    Here is what I think it could evolve to eventually: competition for the hottest women can become so fierce, that only affluent beta cuckolds can be husbands to these women.

    Affluent beta men face a choice:

    1) find a sweet relatively average woman who doesn't excite them, and try to make it work, and get to father their own children with her

    2) accept non-paternity to be with a woman way out of their own league

    Re: the situation with the escort I know I am at least a 6 looks wise (even after accounting for below average height which I know is a big deal to women), if my height was average I'd be perhaps a 7, but this escort is a 10 and the real boyfriend she found has the height, youth and looks on me.

    I know a number of sweet girls in my own league who are interested in me, but they don't excite me.

    I can't blame her, I would choose any 9 or 10 woman over a 6 woman who cares about me any day.

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    bobbieboy is offline Junior Member bobbieboy will become famous soon enough
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    Concerning the name change, in California, if done within a year of the marriage, same proceedure as for a woman changing her name. I went to social security, then the dmv - all done. Then went to the banks, work HR department, etc. Yes, I got lots of kidding and some scorn, but since I wanted to be in a female led marriage, that was all appropriate.

    In California the married spouses are considered the responsible parents unless litigation is brought soon after the birth. In our case the true fathers stop by, are the God Fathers, are "special friends" of Mom and usually deliver extra birthday and Christmas gifts.

    My wife has photos in both the living room and her bedroom of her with her special friends, including the men who helped build our family. We are pretty open about her choices and my role. The God Father role works quite well.

    Though this form of female led marriage is obviously not common, we socialize with several couples that have very happily chosen this path. My wife is totally open on her role and has even given lectures to the parents group at her daughters private school on changing marital roles and legal actions that can enhance the marriage.

    So, while not common, and I certainly do not get invited on any of the husbands hunting or golfing outings, our relationship works quite well. The other Moms in our social groups are very nice to me, though some are a bit cold with my wife in terms of her well known availability for sexual hook-ups. The Men pretty much ignore me and try to flirt with my wife when their wive's are not around.

    And we love my wife's three daughters totally and I could not be happier in helping to raise her wonderful children.

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